Happy Anniversary to our beloved Democracy

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34 responses to “Happy Anniversary to our beloved Democracy”

1. 

   James Killian Spratt

   February 23, 2010

   Shakir: When I was a college student I was once in the Chancellor’s office and used his toilet, which I noticed contained fancy blue deodorant chemicals not present in any of the other toilets on campus. When I asked him (a bit precociously) what entitled him to this, he said “Gee, I don’t know. Maybe the maintenance staff thinks my sh– smells worse than anyone else’s.”

   Hend: I think you have to separate the two elements of being a religious person and being a citizen. A religious person, of any persuasion, cultivates a mind-set of values that are essentially ideals, therefore idealistic, whereas that same person, also a citizen, must deal with daily issues of living on the ground, which are usually far short of ideal. Either his religion prepares him adequately for life on the ground or not. If it doesn’t, maybe he needs to reappraise his ideals and apply some common sense, as you seem to be doing, and hats off to you for it.

   It is essential to cling to ideals, as a set of standards against which to gauge events on the ground, but it’s unrealistic to believe you will achieve those ideals on the ground. That’s what the various versions of Heaven are–ideals made real forever. We can get there, all of us individually and together, but not by insulting, damaging or killing each other.

   Not all “blasphemy” is really blasphemy. There are two kinds of criticism–constructive criticism, which cannot be considered “blasphemy” because it is intended to be friendly and helpful, and destructive criticism, which is obviously just that–destructive; if you can fix it, try, and if you can’t fix it, recycle it. One who refuses a few pointers of the “constructive criticism” type from well-meaning others will never learn or receive any assistance to improve their lot, and will instead summon destructive criticism in its stead.

   Democracy is largely an illusion of every individual’s having an equal say in events on the ground; one vote out of 100 million is just that and no more–one. To think it has much weight is to kid yourself, but it’s a whole lot better than no weight at all. In fact, democratic leaders are only truly attentive and responsive to voters while they are running for office; after that we’re stuck with them for their terms in office and they have a lot of leeway to do things without public consent because there’s no daily referendum on issues, except opinion polls, which are potentially useful but have no teeth that can be sunk into the buttocks of a runaway leader. Re-election, or the threat of being impeached, is real teeth, and so are the standing body of law and the courts, wherein legal precedents are set, when the decisions are made by juries drawn from the grass-roots public instead of a body of government. Seems the Swiss have a superior method.

   The value of religion, as I see it, is that it makes everyone aware of what is right and wrong, and what is expected of them in their interactions with others. Hopefully leaders are well-versed in the same rules as everyone else that they “rule,” and follow those rules conscientiously to maintain their justification to “rule,” by following the ideals of the religion as much as possible. If all the “rulers” of earth did that, I don’t think we’d have any problems at all.

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2. 

   Hend

   February 23, 2010

   shakir

   “if democracy means ruling by consent, then Islam is compatible with democracy. At present, there are Muslim countries which are democratic, like Malaysia, Turkey, Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan.”

   confused huh…it happens when you are not used to democracy…stop peddling names of muslim majority countries as democracies with the exception of turkey…specially the last name is nonsense…a country hijacked by military…and you call it democracy…phbbbt…democracy is not just about electing a government…that is just the first step…a bare minimum to start…but it does not bring democracy by itself…my last post to spratt was quite clear and in english….read it…islam does not offer any democratic privileges…dont be under wrong impression…first go and repeal the blasphemy laws and hudood bs.

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3. 

   Shakir Lakhani

   February 22, 2010

   Hend: if democracy means ruling by consent, then Islam is compatible with democracy. At present, there are Muslim countries which are democratic, like Malaysia, Turkey, Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan. True, these countries were for a time ruled by their generals, but then, this is true of South Korea, Taiwan and Thailand (again, Russia and China are not labelled “democracies”, but they do have elections in their ruling parties).

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4. 

   Hend

   February 22, 2010

   shakir

   first you…what the heck is your definition of democracy? you are citing some islamic caliphate/ monarchy/ king slave as an example of islamic democracy?….next you will cite zia rule and musharraf rule as examples of democracy?…..there is no such thing as one person governance/ king/ caliph…blah blah in democracy….no matter how ‘kind and generous’ they are.

   spratt

   this is houston…

   “doesn’t Islam cover all Muslims in equal measure, from the leader of the land to the lowliest peasant? That sounds pretty democratic to me.”

   while it sounds nice…it does not define democracy. please refer to my earlier writings…democracy bestows the right to choose, govern, legislate, reject and deliver justice on the people and no one else…no theocracy can exist without impinging on the fundamental principles of democracy…islam is no different…if anything the rigidity of opinions in islamic world and stricter code of shariat actually run quite counter to democracy. the fact that most muslim countries are not democratic is NOT some weird coincidence as is being made out to be…it is a natural consequence.

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5. 

   Shakir Lakhani

   February 22, 2010

   James: well said. Although there are sects and sub-sects in Islam, there is no ban on any person to enter a mosque and pray alongside others. The king and the slave can stand together and bow before the Almighty. An ordinary person was able to ask the great Omar (second Caliph of Islam) how his robe was longer than the cloth allotted to him. He answered (without being offended) that his son had given him another piece of cloth. You can’t imagine anyone in modern times being so rude to a ruler and getting away with it.

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6. 

   James Killian Spratt

   February 22, 2010

   @Shakir: Maybe Jenni the Jinni cooked his computer, retaliating for the little dirty-sock hijab he insists she wear. Hope they work it out. 🙂

   @Hend: Whurr you at, thar, Tex?

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7. 

   Shakir Lakhani

   February 21, 2010

   James: Yusha has this habit of suddenly disappearing for a few days. I believe he goes into hibernation, or maybe he meditates deeply on the problems the world is facing and how he can solve them.

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8. 

   James Killian Spratt

   February 21, 2010

   @Hend: Well, doesn’t Islam cover all Muslims in equal measure, from the leader of the land to the lowliest peasant? That sounds pretty democratic to me.

   I’m willing to expound at some length if you’d like, but first I want you to answer my question about your ominous comment about Yusha. What happened to him that is “so bad”, or are you just jerking people’s chains?

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9. 

   Hend

   February 20, 2010

   Tayab

   “We are trying to hide behind democracy to avoid educating ourselves with Quranic message. ”

   Excellent statement. This is my point.

   Shakir, Hamid

   It is easy to say that democracy and Islam are compatible as long as you are not going into the depth of either. When you go deeper, you will find that the two conflict on every fundamental aspect with each other and are totally incompatble. I have given solid and real world examples and explained the basic principle why these are incompatible. In case of Islam and democracy if you try to mix the two, you will end up skewing one of them to the point that it is no longer genuine.

   Spratt

   No. This is a solid argument. Democracy does not go with Islam. You are requested to prove me wrong.

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10. 

    tayab

    February 20, 2010

    If all electrols and elected representatives are have knowledge and will to practice it, then democracy might work. Islamic requirements are not subjected to majority rule, these are there as a fact.

    We are trying to hide behind democracy to avoid educating ourselves with Quranic message. History, myths, stories are fabricated and can not be used to replace Quranic message.

    In Pakistan we are being killed and we kill others in the name of islam, whilst the fact remains that we do not know islam as we should. We are more ignorant and misguided about islam than anywhere else.

    Just by calling ourselves muslim or just because we were born in muslim family, we do not become muslims.

    Its never too late, we should start educating ourselves with true islam by learning from Quran and not from stories.

    Reply